Welcome to Wisdom Today. Today we will be going over Proverb 26. I will then introduce you to my special guest for the day, Pascal Gravelle. Pascal is on staff at Charis Bible College. Pascal goes over his upbringing and how he gave his heart to Jesus as a young boy. He comes from a strong family and his family was very influential in his coming to a close relationship with Jesus. He shares how he met his wife and how excited he is about having his first child.
[00:00:00] Welcome to Wisdom Today. My name is Bill Kelley and I'll be your host. In this podcast
[00:00:12] we will be exploring the book of Proverbs.
[00:00:16] Father God, I thank you for anyone listening to this podcast today. Lord, I pray that you
[00:00:28] give them ears to hear and a heart to receive everything you have in store for them today.
[00:00:34] In addition, I pray that everyone listening would have favor with both God and man. I ask
[00:00:40] this in Jesus name, Amen. This is Proverbs 26 beginning in verse 1. As snow in summer
[00:00:50] and rain in harvest, so honor is not fitting for a fool. Like a flitting sparrow, like a flying
[00:00:58] swallow, so a curse without cause shall not alight. A whip for the horse, a bridal for the
[00:01:06] donkey, and a rod for the fools back. Do not answer a fool according to his folly,
[00:01:14] lest he also be like him. Answer a fool according to his folly, lest he be wise in his own
[00:01:23] eyes. He who sends a message by the hand of a fool cuts off his own feet and drinks
[00:01:30] violence, like the legs of the lame that hang limp is a proverb in the mouth of fools.
[00:01:38] Like one who binds a stone in a sling is he who gives honor to a fool. Like a thorn that
[00:01:47] goes into the hand of a drunkard is a proverb in the mouth of fools. The great God who formed
[00:01:54] everything gives the fool his higher and the transgressor his wages, as a dog returns
[00:02:03] to his own vomit, so a fool repeats his folly. Do you see a man wise in his own eyes? There
[00:02:12] is more hope for a fool than for him. The lazy man says there is a lion in the road. A fierce
[00:02:21] lion is in the streets. As a door turns on its hinges, so does a lazy man on his bed. The
[00:02:29] lazy man buries his hand in the bowl. It wearys him to bring it back to his mouth. The lazy man
[00:02:38] is wiser in his own eyes than seven men who can answer sensibly. He who passes by and medals in
[00:02:48] a quarrel not his own is like one who takes a dog by the ears, like a mad man who throws firebrands,
[00:02:58] arrows and death is the man who deceives his neighbor and says I was only joking. Where there
[00:03:07] is no wood, the fire goes out and where there is no tail bearer, strife ceases. As charcoal is to
[00:03:17] burning coals and wood to fire so is a contentious man to kindle strife. The words of a tail bearer
[00:03:27] are like tasty trifles and they go down into the innmost body. Fervent lips with a wicked heart
[00:03:35] are like Ethan wear covered with silver dross. He who hates disguises it with his lips and lays
[00:03:45] up deceit within himself. When he speaks kindly, do not believe him for there are seven abominations in
[00:03:54] his heart. Though his hatred is covered by deceit, his wickedness will be revealed before the
[00:04:02] assembly. Whoever digs a pit will fall into it and he who rolls a stone will have it roll back
[00:04:11] on him. A lying tongue hates those who are crushed by it and a flattering mouth works ruin.
[00:04:21] Friends, I have a special treat for you today. Ordinarily, I have students on but I actually have
[00:04:28] someone from Kara staff on the day. I have Pascal Gravel and Pascal, I'd like to thank you for coming
[00:04:36] on. It's truly an honor to have you. Thanks Bill. Thanks for having me on this podcast as well.
[00:04:43] Okay, Pascal we just read Proverb 26 and Proverb 26 is one of my favorite Proverbs. I mean you could
[00:04:51] easily go over 10 or even more verses than that but which one spoke directly to you today that
[00:04:57] you'd like to share? You know the one that spoke directly to me with actually verse 20 and
[00:05:05] when I read this chapter I think about honor and I think about our interactions with people
[00:05:10] and how we're to like interact with people but and judge the fruit. But it also talks about
[00:05:17] like it's things for us to also watch in our own life so verse 20 says this where there is no
[00:05:23] wood the fire goes out and where there's no tailbearers strife ceases and this has been something
[00:05:30] in my life that I've I've lived by I've not I've one who doesn't like to get into drama one who
[00:05:37] it doesn't like to speak poorly about other people and I'll often hold an opinion back and wait
[00:05:45] for more fruit before making an assumption about someone. And honestly in my life I've had very
[00:05:52] little strife I've had very little conflict with people and look and it's something that when
[00:06:00] practice that when you start to see the fruit of that it's easier to live with people and to
[00:06:08] be able to see God's potential in them instead of always looking for the faults always looking
[00:06:15] why they're wrong or not. And I used to be that way I used to be quite judgmental but honestly
[00:06:22] to joy the Lord is so much better and it's much better to live in the land of peace than one of
[00:06:28] strife. Well that's so good and verses 20 through 22 all three of those talk basically about gossiping
[00:06:37] yeah and to me grovel if you go to proverb 6 it's one of the seven things that God absolutely hates
[00:06:46] he doesn't want us talking about people behind their back so thank you for bringing that up
[00:06:53] your wise choice and you know I just appreciate that so anyway if you would Pascal talk to us a
[00:07:00] little bit about your early childhood and your fondest memories growing up. Yeah so my early childhood
[00:07:08] when I was when I was five that's when I gave my life to the Lord I was listening to whatever
[00:07:14] my mom had on playing on a cassette tape it was either a grand cook or Andrew Womack and the
[00:07:23] question was mom am I going to go to heaven and I was really concerned and instead of just saying
[00:07:30] oh yeah you'll go to heaven for sure she didn't assume that she took that moment and we prayed together
[00:07:37] and since then I've always had an awareness of God and a reverence for God. I was actually born
[00:07:44] in Colorado and so I spent the first half of my life in Colorado and really enjoyed living here
[00:07:55] I was homeschooled and so it was me and my siblings we grew up together we were our best each
[00:08:00] other's best friend and and so I just I feel like I had a very less childhood and when I was nine
[00:08:08] we actually moved to Canada to where my dad's from we moved to Ontario and so I like to say that I
[00:08:15] was born and raised in Colorado but grew up in Canada and that was an amazing transition for us at
[00:08:23] that time because we got to experience a move a transition we believed that it was because God
[00:08:31] was telling us to move and so being able to follow my parents follow him that was something that
[00:08:42] personally really impacted me and for the for the rest of my life it was it's been what was the
[00:08:49] last thing that God told you to do are you on track or are you following the path I think that
[00:08:55] that's been definitely a very core element of my life interestingly though I grew up we were
[00:09:03] listening to Andrew and to other grace teachers but I ended up developing my own sense of
[00:09:10] legalistic perspective in some ways and it was one of those things where I always looked down
[00:09:15] on other people I thought myself to be the very best kind of person and so and as a result they
[00:09:22] didn't end up caring for people when I was younger as I started getting into high school and started
[00:09:27] getting into like events where there was a lot more leadership and so on I wanted to be the very
[00:09:33] best leader because the best people are good leaders and in discovering leadership I learned that
[00:09:40] that means you love your people and so it was at that time that I was learning through leadership
[00:09:47] to love people that I read a book a biography on Dietrich Bonhoeffer and he had a relationship
[00:09:58] with God through Scripture and through prayer that I didn't have at the time. I was a soldier in
[00:10:03] the eyes of in my own eyes towards the Lord he was my general that was really as far as I had progressed
[00:10:10] in my relationship with God but Dietrich Bonhoeffer who was a really intellectual man had a
[00:10:18] fervency and a passion for God that who's missing in my life and so after that with combination of
[00:10:27] learning to love people because that's what good leaders do and this really new perspective about
[00:10:35] who God could be for me it was it rekindled a huge passion for pursuing who God was and for
[00:10:46] it's what brought me actually up here to Kira's Bible College. I would go up onto the mountain in
[00:10:51] the back section of our property and I learned I learned to pray back there I learned how to talk
[00:10:57] to God and to hear him and that was a really like that those few years leading up to me coming out
[00:11:04] here in 2016 were some of the most impactful moments of my life as it was in this transition from
[00:11:12] the faith of my family to my own faith and so yeah that's my story in that shelf though.
[00:11:21] Well that's that's so good and you know I want to thank you you know and you know you should
[00:11:26] honor your parents. I think you know that you know Ephesians chapter 6 verses 1 through 3
[00:11:33] that we are to honor our parents and really you know I don't really think there's anything more
[00:11:39] important than that you know it's easy to do that Pascal when you're in a family that you had
[00:11:46] but I did not I was not raised in a family like that so anyway my parents aren't around any longer
[00:11:53] but I'm glad that your parents are and that you're doing so well so how many brothers and sisters
[00:11:58] do you have and where do you fit in that group. So I'm the oldest of a total of three so I have
[00:12:03] a brother and a sister and we're all like 16 months apart and so we were very close growing up
[00:12:10] are still very close each other's best friends still. Well that's so good and you know
[00:12:16] you mentioned giving your heart to Jesus but Pascal I have a bunch of people that come on here every
[00:12:22] Tuesday and they talk about giving their heart to Jesus and yet their lives did not change
[00:12:27] and a matter of fact they go years and years before they come back to Jesus. Yeah and you know
[00:12:35] the Bible tells us Pascal that we need to be born again. Yeah and you know we're born into the
[00:12:42] a dynamic type relationship and because of Adam's sin at the very beginning when he's
[00:12:49] sinned with Eve we are born into that nature and that is our nature is to be sinful so when
[00:12:57] did you realize how old were you when you came to the realization I don't need to live that way.
[00:13:03] Yeah that's a good question. When I was when I was little that was definitely at the point where
[00:13:11] I realized that I needed that I wasn't going to get to heaven without Jesus and so and then
[00:13:20] the rest of my life it was this it was a perspective that there is a God and Jesus Christ died for
[00:13:27] my sin arose from the dead but as far as like giving my life like so one of the things that I've
[00:13:35] learned since coming to secarest particularly going on mission trips and doing it like a lot of
[00:13:39] ministry that way is that the gospel is not only a turning away from one's identity of sin but
[00:13:46] it's following the master. It's making him Lord and so I would say I don't know if I have a particular
[00:13:54] moment when that when that happened but it would have been in my early teens where I went from being
[00:14:01] I was to knowing I was a Christian but where I was like I'm going to follow God and that he's my
[00:14:08] boss he's he's the Lord of my life. It was it was in that revelation that he was more than just a general
[00:14:15] but he was also my father he was also my friend that clicked for me to where then it wasn't simply a
[00:14:22] being because that was the rules it was an obedience out of love and a submission because of the
[00:14:29] tremendous gift that he'd given me. Well you know you bring up such a good point and most people
[00:14:36] Pascal really don't ever get that revelation of what you just said you know we need to do things
[00:14:44] not because we have to do things. We do things because God loves us and we want to please him.
[00:14:55] That really should be our desire each and every day is to do everything we can to please the father
[00:15:01] so thank you for that insight that is really powerful. Pascal I want to ask you a question
[00:15:08] you know when most people give their hearts to Jesus and this this is how I view life okay you say
[00:15:16] Jesus come into the front seat and you know I want I want to hang out with you and what they do is
[00:15:24] they invite Jesus into their heart they go to ball games together they do this they do this they do
[00:15:29] this but they're going to hang on to one or two or three little things in other words most people
[00:15:39] Pascal are unwilling to give Jesus the keys to their life were you holding on to anything at all
[00:15:49] or did you totally submit yourself to the Lordship of Christ at an early age.
[00:15:58] You know I think I I did give my whole life to the Lord I remember thinking about you know
[00:16:06] you'd read I'd read these stories about like Dietrich von Haarfer and his life was structured
[00:16:10] a certain way it was like it was very specific and if you've like growing up even before you
[00:16:17] know my teen years but growing up my mom would read it like stories about missionaries so like David
[00:16:23] Livingston and Eric Little and their lives were structured a certain way that geared them to serve the
[00:16:31] Lord and and so there's areas I think where I'm still growing as far as growing out of habits that
[00:16:41] I wouldn't prefer to have like just time being wasted primarily is a big one just where wanting
[00:16:48] to just chill wanting to not have to focus on things but as far as your initial question there
[00:16:58] I think I did I think there was things like if God gives me the direction that he wants me to move
[00:17:03] somewhere or go somewhere my intent is to be obedient to that it isn't to well maybe he did maybe
[00:17:14] he didn't it doesn't really fit in the plan growing up my parents displayed this really well I
[00:17:21] really I really appreciate that they would always go back to if they were confused about something
[00:17:25] the way things were shaping up in life it'd go back what did God tells to do last what was
[00:17:31] the last instruction to us and then they that would help to recalibrate them because you can be
[00:17:38] distracted by a lot of different things in life but turning back to the father turning back to
[00:17:44] his grace helps to give you the next step and sometimes that step is patience and resting in him
[00:17:53] wow you know that's that's really good and you know sometimes in life Pascal things are going
[00:17:58] to happen and bad things happen to good people and a lot of times people don't understand that
[00:18:05] and that's why a lot of people that were probably you know at one time Christians have turned away
[00:18:10] from God you know either a death in the family you know the loss of a job or something
[00:18:17] and a lot of times Pascal we don't have control over some of the things that happened you know if
[00:18:24] you would share with the audience your perspective of that and what your answer would be to somebody who
[00:18:31] asks you about that yeah you know first of all I I don't know what I would do in life without God
[00:18:43] you know circumstances happen we live in a fallen world and that's the expression but the truth
[00:18:49] of the matter is that like we can make a limited amount of choices about what life can look like
[00:18:55] and there's loads of things outside forces some of them are good some of them are neutral some of
[00:19:02] them are intended to destroy us and so like the first statement to that is I don't know what I would
[00:19:10] do without God because he keeps me so he keeps me at peace he keeps me level to where regardless
[00:19:17] of what's happening there's always the opportunity to be thankful there's always the opportunity to
[00:19:23] have a gratitude for his love and his care it says in James that every good gift and every perfect
[00:19:31] gift comes down from the Father of Light who's there's no variation with or shadow of turning
[00:19:37] and so even if it's a gift from another person that's an expression of God towards you
[00:19:43] and so because God doesn't do shady business and sometimes he's good sometimes he's not
[00:19:50] the scripture says that there's no variation or shadow of turning then for me to be able to stand
[00:19:58] fast in his grace and in his love when things are going poorly I know that he's in my corner I
[00:20:04] know he's on my side I know that he doesn't cause these things well that's really good and you know
[00:20:11] Jesus never told us that life would be a rose garden he really didn't a matter of fact his promised
[00:20:16] us is that we if we follow him persecution will follow yeah and if you are not facing persecution
[00:20:24] you're probably going downstream with the devil himself you know have we you know Pascal we
[00:20:30] need to live our lives going upstream we need to go that way the Bible tells us we're to be the
[00:20:35] salt of the earth we are to be going against the grain of what this world tells us and that's
[00:20:42] what Paul tells us in the letters to Rome chapter 121 do not be conformed to this world we are not
[00:20:50] supposed to live their way we're not supposed to think their way in first John chapter 2 verses 15
[00:20:56] through 17 they talk about how destructive it is if we follow the ways of the world and we just
[00:21:04] cannot live that way but as a young man you know now that you're married Pascal if you would let's
[00:21:11] change gears just a little bit talk about that when did you meet your wife tell us about your courtship
[00:21:17] process just tell us about why you are the man you are today well thank you well I when I moved out
[00:21:25] here to Cares Bible College in 2016 that's when I met my now wife and and her name is Melissa she's
[00:21:34] from a ranch in Montana and she's a she's a real cowgirl it's for sure and we met and one of
[00:21:41] the first things that really impressed me about her was we had real conversation we really had
[00:21:47] like every time that we talked there was real connection there was real genie she's just very
[00:21:52] genuine person and so we actually went we'd known each other for several years we were in school
[00:21:59] together we'd worked together and then there was a season where we were apart I didn't really
[00:22:04] hang out didn't really interact very much but in 2018 the summer we started crossing paths again
[00:22:12] and hanging out and as a result of that going to her Bible study that she was a part of at the time
[00:22:20] we actually started a form of courtship and for me it took took a little bit to figure out what
[00:22:28] to call it what it should look like I was I had a lot to grow up in and to just I just felt like I
[00:22:36] had gotten to the point of my life where I could take care of myself and so the prospect of having
[00:22:42] to take care of somebody else too was intimidating and in the midst of that process of growing up there
[00:22:49] was just a lot of doubt and a lot of uncertainty of whether this was the right direction the right
[00:22:56] decision and in prayer to the Lord with that and he asked he said look you can admit that you're
[00:23:03] too young that you're too immature and you can move on and there'll be another opportunity later
[00:23:12] or you can pull up your bootstraps and take care of this girl and it was at that moment that
[00:23:21] there was just a there was a resounding piece we had already been in a relationship for
[00:23:26] six months at that point and I was just going through a lot of uncertainty and it took me about
[00:23:33] a month of just we'd taken a break for that point just because my uncertainty had caused
[00:23:38] a bit of pain on per her and so that month took it was my time to quiet my emotion so I could hear
[00:23:47] the Lord and that's what he shared with me and then after that there was just a huge amount of
[00:23:51] peace because not only did I have peace with Melissa all throughout but at that point I had the
[00:23:58] confirmation of his voice to me in my heart and so after two years of dating we got married
[00:24:05] in 2020 and we've been married now for two years and we're expecting our first and we're very excited
[00:24:15] and one thing that is amazing is the I thought you had to be quite in good to get married you needed
[00:24:25] to have your life very well put together and there's some truth to that but at the same time
[00:24:32] you're not marrying at the peak of your growth you're really just at the beginning
[00:24:36] but this time you get to do it with two people and I've grown so much from her there's been she has a
[00:24:42] very solid foundation of faith and she keeps me encouraged she keeps me disciplined in the very
[00:24:50] little things that help you to maintain a really good relationship with God and you know I can't
[00:24:58] imagine life without her at this point and it's such a blessing. Well I'm going to go to a
[00:25:04] Cleasy Astes and to me this is the marriage really four verses in chapter four of Ecclesiastes
[00:25:11] Solomon really got it but beginning in verse nine it says two are better than one because they
[00:25:17] have a good reward for their labor for if they fall one will lift up his companion but woe to him
[00:25:25] who is alone when he falls for he has no one to help him up again if two lie down together they will
[00:25:33] keep warm but how can one be warm alone though one may be overpowered by another two can withstand
[00:25:42] him and a threefold cord is not quickly broken Pascal in my idea this is what God wants marriage to
[00:25:51] be God wants to be the head and the man and the woman are on the bottom kind of like a triangle
[00:25:59] but what I want to get I want you to share with the audience is how important is it that you are a
[00:26:07] Christian prior to entering into marriage and so you can seek God and hear the voice of God directly
[00:26:16] telling you and giving you permission saying yes this is the one go forward with this
[00:26:24] so one of the things that you know we've talked a little bit about it in different
[00:26:30] aspects already in this conversation but our primary purpose we were created
[00:26:37] to be as God we were created for that relationship and so that is our primary
[00:26:43] purpose to serve God and by that it's to have a relationship with him and if we're outside of
[00:26:51] that then we're going to try to use all sorts of different things to satisfy that need for
[00:26:57] purpose for value the questions that people ask and it's led to several wrong answers because
[00:27:05] it's been done without Christ but where am I going in life what is my purpose who am I and without
[00:27:12] Christ you're going to have those questions kind of just in the back of your head unanswered
[00:27:19] and it'll lead you to choose to do things that actually don't fit you it'll lead you to choose
[00:27:25] to do things that are outside of who you were supposed to be and so when it comes to marriage
[00:27:31] it's so important to have your first purpose established with having relationship with Jesus
[00:27:38] having relationship with your creator because it's going to be from him that you understand who you
[00:27:43] are as a result of that if you're not stable then trying to have somebody else in your house in
[00:27:52] your life but you're doing life with where you're acting selfishly where you're not focused on
[00:27:59] the father on the best example of what a husband would look like then you will end up acting
[00:28:06] selfishly to that person and frankly that person will too being able to have Christ centered in
[00:28:15] your life isn't just about okay I'm a Christian so therefore I act like this it's your father
[00:28:22] your best friend the Holy Spirit he's called the Comforter in Adams or in John he's going to guide
[00:28:29] you into all truth so one of the things that I learned in my transition from being just a Christian
[00:28:38] because I knew I'd given my heart to the Lord to be a follower of Christ was listening hearing
[00:28:45] from God I used to journal a lot about what my day was like or thoughts that I might have had
[00:28:49] my journaling now is primarily dialogue between me and God Lord what do you have to say about me
[00:28:56] who am I to you in this area of my life and so when I was going through this process of
[00:29:04] prayer with God about Melissa it was like Lord is this your best for me but also for her
[00:29:12] I love her but is this the best path you have for us and the Lord used several different
[00:29:18] means to communicate he used his peace which is a supernatural peace it can be unique you very
[00:29:23] scared because you have peace about things that will stretch you but there'll be a rest in your heart
[00:29:30] that this is this fits and then also just through him speaking to me through that writing process
[00:29:38] it was through those both of those means that he communicated and again I don't know what life
[00:29:45] would be like without God I don't know what life would be like without that guide in my life
[00:29:50] I'd be making all sorts of decisions based on how I felt on a particular day and it provides a
[00:29:56] rock a foundation a surety that it's not just me living this life but I also have my God
[00:30:04] well that's so good and I'm going to go to Solomon once again in Proverbs 1822 and he says he who
[00:30:11] finds a wife finds a good thing in the new living translation it says he who finds a wife finds
[00:30:17] a treasure which I just find just I just love that and then it says but he and he will obtain
[00:30:23] favor from the Lord so ask out what I'd like for you to do is just share how different your life
[00:30:32] is now that you have Melissa and how you have someone to share life with how precious that is yeah
[00:30:39] so I really like that there was sections for an inch true one of the things that happened when
[00:30:46] we we've been dating for two years and we finally got married and could live together now I thought
[00:30:51] there would be this huge release of like a new sensation as a really like impactful moment that
[00:30:58] now she's finally living with me and it wasn't that way it was the most natural adjustment ever
[00:31:05] and it was it was so much fun really because someone who had our expend loads of time with
[00:31:11] and I could now like wake up in the morning and sit together and have relationship with
[00:31:18] right away and I think what was cool is that it was natural it was a natural shift of
[00:31:25] we the two of us now have become one we've we've gone from living two separate lives to
[00:31:30] living one life and we're starting to see this now with our with the baby coming
[00:31:36] of the promise of this multiplication where it says where two one might put a thousand to flight but
[00:31:44] two ten thousand that's not like one plus one equals two it's like one times ten and so there's
[00:31:50] this huge multiplication that happens in your life whether it's like your awareness of
[00:31:56] relationship and in in community or whether it's finances but being able to share my life with Melissa
[00:32:05] has again she's she is actively making me a better person without knowing it she's not in trying
[00:32:14] to fix me but in the desire to love her I'm changing and I know I'm changing I'm growing I'm
[00:32:20] maturing and there's a there's a certain reward or blessing that you receive when you're willing
[00:32:30] to do that that it is a treasure it is a good thing living life alone isn't as much fun
[00:32:38] binding means and I think God has some really amazing things for us in this journey
[00:32:45] well that's good and I'm gonna I'm gonna keep going the same path I'm going because you know
[00:32:52] I really like having fathers especially young fathers and young men on my podcast because you
[00:32:58] have so much to offer but this is my question of you now okay you love your brothers you love
[00:33:04] your sisters you love your mother and your father you talked about how close you were as a family
[00:33:10] and yet when you get married you promise to cherish your wife it's a different word cherish
[00:33:18] than it is love lord if if Pascal if you would just give us the definition in your mind the
[00:33:25] difference between love and cherish and how what it means to cherish your wife yeah I think
[00:33:32] to cherish is like two it's it's to hide it's to hold to a level of value to where it is a
[00:33:41] precious thing to you it would be like you had like a very fine if you had a really like fancy box
[00:33:49] right that was like kind of all sorts of gems and was made of precious metals and was masterfully
[00:33:54] carved and you kept that in a very safe place you kept it away from prying eyes and it was
[00:34:01] something that you held a lot of value to that that would be a form of putting it in a way
[00:34:08] putting it into a place in your heart where you showed it great value I think to love particularly
[00:34:14] with your family you're going to love your family they're going to have a high value in your heart
[00:34:20] but to cherish is to nurture and to hold at such a great value in your own life that it's a
[00:34:30] that you know from from me Melissa in cherishing her add so much to me and as a result wanting to
[00:34:40] take absolute the best care that I know how following Christ in that um I think so one of the things
[00:34:48] that my wife teases about is that you know if we if we get into a teasing match that she says you
[00:34:53] have to treat me like the weaker vessel honor me as the weaker vessel and we we get a good laugh
[00:34:58] out of that but that that word weaker vessel didn't mean like you know um subservient or poor quality
[00:35:06] it was actually like weak meant highly delicate and highly valuable and and so um my intention
[00:35:14] and my heart is to treat this woman who I cherish um as my equal and as my as my peer someone who
[00:35:23] I'm doing like with and and someone who I wouldn't want to do life separately apart from because
[00:35:31] of the value that we have you know I'm glad that you brought up that verse because that is one
[00:35:36] of my favorite verses and past scout what that verse means to me is that we are basically to be
[00:35:42] the umbrella we are to be the protection over our wives you know and and you you said that very well
[00:35:50] but I just have so much admiration and respect for who you are as such a young man because you have
[00:35:56] such wisdom but I'm gonna I'm gonna talk real briefly about you have don't have a child yet
[00:36:02] I'm gonna go to Proverbs 226 and it says train up a child in the way he should go or she
[00:36:08] and when they grow up they will not depart from this and then I want to go to Ephesians chapter
[00:36:14] 6 verse 4 and this is the um basically the instructions for a father and it says provoke not your
[00:36:23] children so with that those two verses together how do you plan on raising your child in the
[00:36:32] admonition of the Lord and teach them and train them and yet not provoke your children to rep.
[00:36:40] Yeah that's a good question so one of the things that I admire about my parents and I look to
[00:36:46] is that part of part of why they homeschool us and one of the things that my mom discovered kind
[00:36:52] of in the process of doing that is she taught she said I would don't want to teach you things
[00:36:57] I want you to I want to teach you how to think so you so you can learn things she taught us to
[00:37:03] be self learners um and I was actually just meditating on John 14 where Jesus says I'm the way
[00:37:09] the truth in the life and um so to point the child in the way they should go I want to point them to
[00:37:16] Jesus I want them to have a strong relationship with Jesus but I know in my life it was so packed
[00:37:21] for when I took ownership of that when I took responsibility and so you know this is something that
[00:37:27] I've been I've especially now that I'm going to be a father uh I've been thinking about and it's
[00:37:33] I want to train my children to be thinkers to know how to think I want to train them up in the Lord
[00:37:45] I want to point them to Christ but I want them to follow him I don't want to um enforce
[00:37:54] that they follow my rules I want them to follow him I want them to take responsibility for their lives
[00:38:01] and I think it'll be it's a it's a process of stages when when they're very young you are responsible
[00:38:07] for them but as they become older there's a transfer of that responsibility one of the things that
[00:38:14] my my dad did I asked for it um but he trans but we had a a form of a um uh a coming of age celebration
[00:38:23] at one point that I asked for and um it was kind of it was the mark of this I was a child
[00:38:32] and I thought like a child but now I'm becoming a man and this is the beginning of it and that means
[00:38:37] that it's my responsibility to behave a certain way to think a certain way and um so there's this
[00:38:43] transfer that it happens of where the it mentions not to provoke them I think provoke that
[00:38:50] provocation can happen when parents hang on and it can happen when parents overlord responsibility
[00:38:58] that truly opt to rest with the child or at this point growing up adult um and so
[00:39:06] yeah the initial plan right now is point them to Jesus show them how he has made them with the
[00:39:14] extremely unique purpose and give them the tools that they need to start moving that direction
[00:39:20] in their own unique individual way and then entrust them into the Lord's hands.
[00:39:27] Well that is that is so good and that is so powerful for especially young couples who have young
[00:39:35] children. That is just a wonderful perspective and thank you for sharing that it's good to to talk
[00:39:42] to young people and see kind of what's in their mind but Pascal what I'd like to do is uh one of the
[00:39:48] reasons why I really felt drawn to you and wanting to have you on is that even though you are on
[00:39:54] staff and you do not have to do this you choose to take ownership of mission teams and take
[00:40:04] students at Kara second year students on mission trips. If you would tell me what you've gotten
[00:40:11] from that and the value that you have gotten intrinsically by helping students and leadership.
[00:40:17] So going on a mission trip yourself it's very like it's very self focused but it should be
[00:40:22] and it's like it's this brand journey where it's like you're embarking to a completely new place
[00:40:28] and you're going to do completely new things and you're going to be stretched um
[00:40:33] and then when you go as a lead and you get to bring these people uh you you get to shepherd that
[00:40:41] your ministry becomes them and as and then secondly the people you're going to instead of that being
[00:40:47] primarily um so I when I first moved out here I had a huge heart for missions thought I was going
[00:40:54] to go be a missionary and then I through various opportunities got to instead of going got to be
[00:41:01] the sender in a way so I worked in the missions department for a while organizing teams leading teams
[00:41:09] but getting to see the backside and I have a real heart to grow people. I have a real heart to
[00:41:15] see people go from not knowing what their purpose is or feeling like they have no value
[00:41:23] and showing them that they have real value not projected value for me to them but that they themselves
[00:41:29] have been given a value by God to do what he has called them to do and so I get to kind of do that
[00:41:36] when I'm on a mission trip and so I've led it uh I think six mission trips now and every time
[00:41:44] it's like each one's really unique and you get to see the people go from being a place of
[00:41:50] I have no idea what to expect I'm a little nervous and there's all sorts of ranges where people
[00:41:56] will start out but getting to see where what a week of intentional focused daily service
[00:42:06] working as unto the Lord for the people that we're going to go do whether it's whether it's true
[00:42:10] ministry of evangelism and pastoring and prayer or whether it's like more labor focused
[00:42:18] a mix of all that there's a switch that happens in people they get it they get to see for the first
[00:42:23] time what it means to live a life where that is completely focused on serving God and his people
[00:42:31] and coming back I like the this the dozen or so people who have discovered their purpose on a trip
[00:42:39] that is super cool being able to be a part of that story and really a mission trip is so short
[00:42:45] but so it's a very small part but being able to be a part of their story to where God shows them
[00:42:51] what what they're called to for the rest of their life is just for me amazing um and so I
[00:42:58] I get a huge amount of value out of seeing people discovering their purpose
[00:43:04] wow that's so good. Pascale I'm going to give you a quote from Ray Patterson who runs our business
[00:43:11] school and he says leaders are readers and readers are leaders. Pascale what I'd like for you to do
[00:43:19] I have a feeling that you read quite a bit and if you would share with the audience how important
[00:43:27] reading is whether it's the Bible or any other books but what type of books do you read other than the
[00:43:34] Bible and tell the audience why? Yeah so I read um I read it in a mix of books I've
[00:43:42] I've gone on leadership kicks right now with my job it's quite a wide up very broad skill set range
[00:43:51] between just conversations with people leading people managing time and then the actual like
[00:43:58] science of process improvement and so I so the books that I've read recently have been like
[00:44:06] you know crucial conversations and one that I'm right now is actually more for personal
[00:44:11] personal thing but it's called soundtracks and learning how to when I read
[00:44:19] and when I read when I read leadership books when I read the Bible there I there's a certain
[00:44:26] refreshing that happens in me so if I go for a season without reading I feel I'm not feeling very
[00:44:31] dormant mentally and also just kind of I do get into kind of an emotional and mental slump
[00:44:38] and so it's important for me to continue to read because it refreshes me and then it provides me with like
[00:44:46] things that my brain can chew on um and I process it and I start applying it to my life and
[00:44:53] with the actual content of a book and like you know the specific notes in and the specific
[00:44:59] lesson sometimes are less important what ends up being more important is the process of
[00:45:05] we're looking at something new digesting it and applying the things that stuck out to your life
[00:45:13] and so I end up like the process of reading enriches my life and it it's a form of rest actually for
[00:45:20] me um last year I was a part of a uh a little it was a leadership conference that our
[00:45:27] work allowed us to go to and um one of the one of the things that came out of that for me was
[00:45:33] I'm not resting well you know it's not because I'm not tired I if I was tired I could take a net
[00:45:39] but I'm not resting well and what I identified was was that very thing I'm not
[00:45:44] I'm not reading enough I'm not writing enough when I do those things it helps to actually recharge me
[00:45:50] refresh me and it actually and then it provides in a weird way a path of wisdom for me like
[00:45:59] there might be things in my life that come and because of what I've been learning there's all
[00:46:03] the sun an illuminated path that I wouldn't I didn't know those answers before so okay that's good
[00:46:11] and I'm going to ask specifically now about reading the Bible and Jesus gave us the example
[00:46:17] you know when you go to I believe it's Matthew chapter four and immediately after being baptized
[00:46:22] in the river Jordan by John the Baptist he was drawn into the wilderness and Satan tempted him
[00:46:28] for 40 days and when Satan tempted him he tempted him three times and every time he was tempted
[00:46:34] Jesus responded with it is written it is written it is written so past how my question for you
[00:46:41] is for those people who consider themselves Christians and they go to church on a weekly basis
[00:46:48] and yet they don't read the Bible what I ask you is how important is it to you as a young man to
[00:46:57] read the Bible and tell the audience why yeah there's a there's a couple of ways I could look at that
[00:47:06] I think this is one that this is one that has been more recent like I don't know realization but
[00:47:13] this book that I'm reading right now is called soundtracks and it's about what are the different
[00:47:16] voices that you allow in your head to play when certain things happen and it's your own thought
[00:47:22] patterns and the soundtracks is about changing out your your thought patterns to gear you towards
[00:47:30] success and so for me the the blessing of the Bible is this in that it's a life it's a it's a relevant
[00:47:43] document that when we read it has very applicable personal personal application to us and I truly
[00:47:52] believe that God will when we're reading through he will highlight to us versus that he wants us to
[00:47:59] put into our new thought processes or our new soundtracks and so when when you're going through life
[00:48:09] without having a fed the foundation of scripture to be your primary soundtrack you will lose track
[00:48:17] even as a Christian if you do not found yourself on the foundation of scripture you will lose track
[00:48:23] of who you are your thoughts your flesh will lead you elsewhere it's it's the analogy of being
[00:48:32] a ship without an anchor you'll be tossed into tune fro in the wind and so the scriptures
[00:48:40] are an anchor but it also it's it's a rewiring a transformation as it says in Romans 12 of your mind
[00:48:48] to think more as he would think to approach situations from his perspective rather than my very
[00:48:56] limited and inexperienced perspective so the Bible is is my anchor and it's it's what's teaching
[00:49:03] me to think differently and to approach life differently and in a way that I think is more helpful
[00:49:09] is healthier and is in line with my purpose well that's so good and especially Pascal if you read
[00:49:16] the book of Proverbs you know Proverbs on a daily basis and that's why I started my podcast as
[00:49:22] people would hear that proverb you know and I often encourage them you know to read on weekends when
[00:49:29] they're not listening to me but also this book of Psalms is also very very rewarding but Pascal
[00:49:36] what I'd like for you to do is just share I'm gonna give you an open mic for maybe two three four
[00:49:40] minutes whatever you feel led to do but what would you say to people out there who still are on the fence
[00:49:47] they have not given their heart to Jesus yet they do not know what it's like and they're still
[00:49:53] wondering what is life all about share why it's important to receive Jesus into your heart
[00:50:01] and why it's important to actually become a Christian yeah well it really begins with us
[00:50:10] understanding that you were created we were all created to be God's highest creation and
[00:50:20] when Adam and Eve fell in the beginning of the Bible when Adam and Eve sinned there was a separation
[00:50:28] that occurred we once were connected with God and now are not our sin separates us from his holiness
[00:50:40] and honestly we were created in his image we were created in his likeness sin is saying I want to
[00:50:46] behave be separate from God and if we are behaving contrary to ourselves it's destructive it's
[00:50:54] painful it will hurt us and others around us and so that was the problem then that's the problem
[00:51:00] that if you have not accepted Jesus your facing is this sin and the problem with sin is that there
[00:51:06] will be consequences there will be a judgment and and whether it's in this life or the next I believe
[00:51:13] that sin has both consequences now and consequences for eternity and eternal separation from God but
[00:51:22] there was a solution and that was God choosing to send Jesus as to take our place it would be like
[00:51:31] us being in you know in the courtroom and yeah we're guilty as charged but the judge gets up
[00:51:39] and he takes our place instead so that we could be free and it's not only him taking our place on
[00:51:47] and taking on our sin and our our old identity of selfishness but it's also us taking on his
[00:51:55] identity as a new creation as a new creature and when we choose to say yes to Jesus it isn't
[00:52:07] it isn't just a ticket to heaven someday it's a choice to live life now in a completely different way
[00:52:17] but in a way that you were made to live in. In making that choice you have to lay down you have to
[00:52:27] turn away from your own selfishness you have to turn away from your own your own miserable path
[00:52:35] that you're living. You may be successful you may have your life figured out as far as you're concerned
[00:52:42] but is it is it a selfish path? Is it a self-centered path? Is it a path where you are alienating yourself
[00:52:51] from people you love or or what you feel you're meant to do in choosing Christ we turn away from
[00:53:01] the selfish choice and we make God our boss and it's a very intentional choice but in making God our
[00:53:09] boss we're actually submitting to how we were designed to live in partnership with him each one of
[00:53:15] us are made with a purpose each one of us are made to be someone and that's to be the children of God
[00:53:23] and when we put that priority first it says that all the desires of our heart God will give us
[00:53:34] when we put him first there it's Solomon one of the authors of Proverbs in the primary one
[00:53:40] when he became king asked the Lord for wisdom asked the Lord I want to rule well I want to
[00:53:48] prove my purpose well and as a result of that decision God said I'm going to give you other things too
[00:53:54] the things you didn't ask for and in the book of Psalms it says if we delight ourselves in the Lord
[00:54:00] he'll give us the desires of our heart but truly I think the deepest desire is that for purpose
[00:54:05] and to be to have an identity who am I? I'm a child of God what is my purpose to love him and to
[00:54:13] be loved by him and as a result of doing that he will show me what I'm to do and so if you've
[00:54:20] not received Christ if you've maybe said yeah I'll receive him into my heart but you haven't chosen
[00:54:27] to um if you've not chosen to submit your life to him to say Jesus you're my boss I only take orders
[00:54:35] from you I will leave behind my old selfish ways and I will turn to serve you and to be loved by
[00:54:46] you if you haven't done that I encourage you you need to and if you if you're not ready yet
[00:54:52] you have to think about it you have to you have to consider what is going what is my life really
[00:54:59] all about right now what is what could life look like though with Christ and Bill said this earlier
[00:55:06] it's not going to be necessarily a cake walk when you're living in purpose anything built intentionally
[00:55:12] was never easy but it's going to be the most rewarding thing you'll ever do it's the biggest decision
[00:55:18] when you're talking with Christians what's the most important thing you've ever said
[00:55:22] it was giving my life to Christ because it's not just a choice to live a life on Sunday it's a choice
[00:55:28] to live your life every day and so if you're if you're listening and you're ready to make that
[00:55:36] decision to turn from your sin turn from your selfishness and to uh turn to Christ making him
[00:55:43] your boss to follow him and just pray this prayer with me Jesus I'm sorry for my sin
[00:55:52] I am a sinner I'm a I've been selfish and I only thinking about myself
[00:56:04] but I don't want that anymore Jesus I receive your sacrifice on the cross I allow you to take
[00:56:16] my penalty for my sin I allow you to do that you're offering it and I allow you to do that
[00:56:25] and I receive your gift of salvation I allow you to come into my life
[00:56:32] and to become my boss I choose today to make you the ruler of my life and I choose to follow you
[00:56:45] thank you for your gift of salvation thank you for your sacrifice on the cross
[00:56:51] I receive it in Jesus name amen amen Haskell thank you so much I really appreciate you and I know
[00:57:00] your audience has been blessed today friends if there's anyone that repeated that prayer I ask
[00:57:06] that you reach out to me on my Facebook page bill Kelly KELLEY and if you have any specific
[00:57:12] questions about anything you've heard on today's podcast please reach out to me on messenger now
[00:57:18] may the Lord bless you and keep you the Lord make his face shine upon you and be gracious to you
[00:57:24] the Lord lift up his countenance upon you and give you peace friends please join me again tomorrow
[00:57:31] as we further explore wisdom today